Friday, August 17, 2007

TubeNet joins the Anglican debate

It never ceases to amaze me the various and bizarre places that discussions about ECUSA and the Anglican Communion come up. Take for instance TubeNet, a place for musicians to post pictures, look for jobs, etc. Being a social community, TubeNet also offers a place for users to talk about things "off topic" - and in the midst of the ramblings comes this exchange:

Posted by: Rick Denney
Resident Genius
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:07 pm

SplatterTone wrote:
(Anglicans? Did somebody say Anglicans?)
You did.

It should be pointed out that the approval of the gay bishop is NOT the cause for the departure of many churches from the Episcopal Church of the USA (ECUSA). It was just one of a series of incidents going back at least 30 years, including the current leader of that denomination describing Jesus as a myth and God as a mystical "mother spirit". If people want to believe that, that's okay with me, but why call themselves Christians? It seems to me the one fundamental meaning of being a Christian is to believe in Christ.

But it wasn't those churches that left the Anglican Communion. It was the Anglican Communion that is leaving the ECUSA. In the last several international convocations, Anglican bishops have asked the American episcopal church to stop undermining their fundamental beliefs. The ECUSA, as the affiliated denomination with the Anglican church in the U.S., has rebuffed those requests. Thus, it became apparent that the Anglican Communion would eventually have a parting of the ways with the ECUSA.

Not all episcopals agree with the ECUSA on this matter, and many would rather stay in the Anglican Communion than the ECUSA. Thus, they were invited to joint other Anglican dioceses and each voted to do so. The church I attend is now a member of the Convocation of Anglicans in North America, and we are now a part of the missionary diocese of the Anglican Church of Nigeria. The vote in our church was 124 to 4.

It is unfortunate that the ECUSA has taken this to court, mostly because they want our real estate. It's also about taking the retirements away from the Episcopal priests (now Anglican priests), by de-ordaining them, even though they no longer had ecclesiastical authority over them.

Most of the churches who have moved to other Anglican dioceses were organized outside the Episcopal Church (and some of them before the Episcopal Church existed). They joined the ECUSA later. Virginia law gives them the right to leave it. No dollar from the ECUSA has ever flowed into our church, but lots of them have flowed from our church to the ECUSA.

Rick "who has thought for a while that African churches needed to send missionaries to the U.S." Denney

Posted by: MartyNeilan
6 valves

Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject:

It is interesting to see how American churches get to bickering.

In Central America, people without a penny to their name walk (often barefoot) for miles to go to church services. No Hummers in their parking lot.
And, in the Middle East, Christian church services are held in fortified compounds while local police armed with automatic weapons stand out front to protect the congregation. Ushers with radios and earpieces constantly patrol every hall inside and search every corner throughout the service.
And, in inner city America (the other America) hundreds of homeless men will sing their hearts out on a Friday night service and be grateful for just for a mattress on the floor.

Marty "who has been to all of those and did not notice any denominational bickering"
It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.

Posted by: Rick Denney
Resident Genius
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:01 pm

MartyNeilan wrote:
Marty "who has been to all of those and did not notice any denominational bickering"

There is a boundary between denominational bickering and undermining the fundamental tenets of the religion. We aren't talking about water baptism versus spiritual baptism, or predestination, or premillennialism, or praise worship versus traditional hymns, or other issues of doctrinal interpretation or worship style. We are talking about whether people who call themselves Christians actually believe in Christ. They all believe in the church, and its traditions. That is not at the root of the argument, though it is often characterized that way.

This isn't a denominational squabble.

The reason you don't get that sort of thing in places you mentioned is that people are there to worship Christ, not to undermine the worship of Christ. Why would anyone attend a church where it is risky to do so if the people in that church believe only in church tradition? They go because they believe in Christ and want to worship with others who do. It really is that simple.

Rick "who has also attended church in those places" Denney

TubeNet logoCheck it out.


Tregonsee said...

Wonderful points. Nothing that we have not seen at T19 or Standfirm, but nicely summarized. I find it slightly encouraging that such could occur in a rather secular site.

Best line, though perhaps not the most profound: "It's not the heat, it's the stupidity."

Anne Coletta said...

What I found interesting was the poster's very clear understanding of what had been happening - obviously, his rector has been doing a good job of educating the congregation on what is really going on.